Flying school advice

[Yaaan]

Hi all,

I'm aftter a little bit of advice and hope somebody here might be able to help. I've been wanting to learn to fly helicopters for years but until now have never been in a position to be able to afford to.

For my birthday this year, my girlfriend came up trumps with a present and bought me a taster lesson which I thoroughly enjoyed and am now very keen to get on and get my PPL (looks like she's going to end up costing me a lot more than she already does ).

I live in Bristol currently but spend a lot of my time in Gloucester and as such I had my taster with Patriot AViation at Staverton. I've discovered that there are a couple of other schools based there too: Rise and Heliflight. Does anyone have any knowledge of any of these and able to make any recommendations? Similarly, as I live in Bristol, can anyone suggest a good school near there?

Another option available to me is to take my lessons in the US as I work overseas and currently working in the Gulf of Mexico out of Texas so I can get there for free (work pays to send me there) and I get 4 or 5 weeks at a time off so plenty of time to get it done. The initial outlay for this would be considerably cheaper (although less so with the current exchange rate) but how big a deal is it converting this to JAA/CAA? I believe that I would have to do all of the ground exams but is there much else involved in the conversion?

I'm really only interested in getting my PPL at the moment and flying for a hobby but I'm not dicsounting going further and getting my CPL and trying to find work as a pilot. It seems to require a fairly major financial investment (with no guarantee of work at the end) that I'm certainly not in a position to make at the moment, but I'm working offshore at present and have no intention of spending the rest of my life doing this so I'm just considering alternatives that would be of interest

Anyway, sorry to waffle on. I look forward hearing from you on your experiences and hopefully will find this place a useful source of information over the next few months/years

Thanks in advance.
Ian

[WindSwept]

We were discussing this at the school the other day. Fendersim, who's kicking around somewhere is having a similar dilema. He could go to Florida with Bristow and do his JAA PPL/CPL and an FAA FI for something like 10k cheaper than he could in the UK. There arnt as many schools over there teaching JAA PPL/CPL so getting the ground exams done can be hard.

A guy at the school currently is just converting his license from an FAA PPL to a JAA PPL and he has to sit several of the exams plus a certain number of flying hours. I don't think its quite as bad converting a PPL but from talking to him it sounds like converting a CPL can be quite a pain in the arse, FAA licenses seem to require less hours to hold so you might have to come back to the UK and build hours inorder to convert which is going to cost, then sitting exams and then passing the flight tests.

You also have to think about where you want to fly, if eventually you want to move out to the US and fly over there for the foreseable career life then it definatly makes sense to go out there and get the cheaper FAA licenses. If however you want to fly in Europe then although its cheaper to go over there, you've got hassel converting when you get back and all your flying experience is in a country you have no intention to fly in.

If it was me and i wasn't yet sure about where i was going to go in the future then i would just do my PPL in the UK. I can always move to america and do my CPL or i can stay in the UK and do it. Best thing to do is talk to people who have converted.
_________________
EX-ATC
PPL (H)

[Yaaan]

Thanks for the quick reply

Initially most of my flying would be done in the UK. The CPL is a plan for some time in the future (although it's not unknown for me to get caught up in what I'm doing and end up doing more than I originally planned ) so if I went to the US it would only be to do my PPL and I'm not sure whether the saving on doing the course over there would be worth it or whether I'd see that eaten up by additional costs to convert once I got home. I guess i'll have to do a little more research first!

I think my plan is to get started at a school over here and take lessons while I am at home, and then once I have saved sufficient funds consider wether to stay there and finish it or head across the pond to complete the course there.

[WindSwept]

Well as you probably know you really want a JAA PPL which is a minimum of 45 hours (although it usually takes more around 55 and above) plus 7 ground exams, and hold a Class 2 Medical (don't worry you only need to be able to breath).

If you go to the US there are only a very limited number of schools who teach JAA i think. So starting here then going there would probably be abit of a waste of time unless you can find a JAA course. Otherwise you shall be doing a JAA course here then go over there and be studying for a different license, FAA.

I think if your just looking to do you PPL then i would do it in one or the other place and consider the difficulties of converting when you get back. The cost for a PPL in the UK is about £15k i should think on average.

Heres a link for the CAA publication LASORS, which is all about flight crew licensing and the required standards and proceedures to convert certain licenses.

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=90&appid=11&mode=detail&id=1591

The guy i was talking about Brian is using it to find out what he needs to do to convert his FAA PPL to a JAA PPL, he says there are certain things you HAVE to do, like you have to sit the air law exams and some others but then there are sections where its vague and seems to relate to what your flying school think would be best for you to do to convert back.

But in anycase i would certinaly do one or the other, do it all over here or do it all over there and convert back.

Its not a very long course at all 45 hours rushes past if you can devote alot of time to it, so going all the way over there and splitting it into two halves then converting and such will make it twice as long.
_________________
EX-ATC
PPL (H)

[Yaaan]

Excellent, thanks for the link. I'll give that a look. Gives me something to do at work

I've just had a look at the Bristow site and a JAA course in the US they quote as $14000 for the minimum 45 hours. Patriot Aviation where I did my taster would cost me approx. £12500 so not a huge saving given the current exchange rate (1.44ish to the £), maybe £3000. It would have been much better if I did it earlier this yera at $2 to the £! I'm budgeting for an extra 33% as 60 hours seems to be closer to the norm than 45. To be honest though, even if I get out to the US for free on work flights I'll still have accomodation to pay for so it probably won't make much difference in the end. The more I look at it the more it makes sense to do it over here, just for convenience. Guess I've just made the decision

[WindSwept]

Well i didnt wana push the choice but currently it does seem to work out cheaper over here when you have to pay for the acommodation out there. And lets not forget, 60 hours in the UK is going to be MUCH more useful for your experience flying around in UK airspace and not to mention flying into airfields with an instructor to help you so when you've passed you will have a better idea of the actual places you will fly to. You get to experience the UK weather etc...

For a PPL and pleasure flying i don't think its worth going to america at this exchange rate. If you were doing Commercial and an Instrument Rating, then i could see it being better in the US but we won't go into the phenomical cost of doing an IR in the uk!
_________________
EX-ATC
PPL (H)

[Jen]

I agree and I think having a support network in the country you're actually going to be living and flying in is a really valuable thing - especially if you're just getting a PPL for fun (as I'm doing ). I know of someone who did a good number of hours (35 or so) abroad, but when he got home decided not to carry on. There were other reasons as well, but it just generally makes things easier to learn near home.

[Yaaan]

I think when I get back to the UK next month I'll head up to Staverton and check out the schools there to get a bit of a feel for them and see about booking up a lesson or two so here's hoping for a calm December and January

[McBad]

I completed my PPL with Rise at Staverton last month; they are a good bunch and I would certainly recommend them. Go round there and have a look; they've got a good set up with several R22s (three usually) and a couple of R44s available.

James (Chief Flying Instructor) and Dave do most of the instructing there with Tamzin also doing odd days and weekends.

When you go round mention my name; it won't get you any discount but it will make me look good!

Good luck,

M.

(If you want any specific info about Rise feel free to PM me.)

[WhirlyGirl]

Hi Yaaan,

Welcome! If you get the JAR PPL(H), later converting to an FAA PPL(H) is a mere paperwork exercise and maybe one check flight with a US instructor before you self-fly-hire.

If you get the FAA PPL(H) and want to convert over here to a JAR PPL(H), you must, if you have less than 100 hours sit all the JAR PPL exams, get a radio telephony licence and complete training as required to meet the standard to pass the PPL(H) skills test over here. If you have over 100 hours when you want to convert you are let off for 5 of the exams, but all the other requirements still apply.

So much easier and probably even cheaper to go JAR to FAA than FAA to JAR, especially with the current exchange rate.

Hope this helps. If you're back in the UK by 6th December we'll be holding another career seminar at Coventry which might help you understand all the requirements (even if you're only looking at PPL it's useful). You'd be most welcome to attend - it's free! If you're not available then there will be another one in January for sure.

All the best,

Sarah
_________________
CPL(H) / FI(H) - R22, S300, R44, B206
Flight Examiner (H), 170A, Ground Examiner (H)

[Yaaan]

McB, WG,

Thanks for the info The more I look at it the more it makes sense to me to do my training at home , especially with the current exchange rates

Unfortunately I'm not back in the UK unti lthe 11th so I'll have to wait unti January for the seminar. Do you know what date that is likely to be as I'm back out for work again in mid January. I think someone checks to see if there is anything interesting going on before booking my schedule at work and makes sure I'm out of the coutry at the time

Anyway, thanks all. All helping to wet my appetite for when I get home

Ian

[WhirlyGirl]

Yaaan,

I will let you know the date as soon as I know!

I'm sure there will be one in the first two weeks of the new year.

Sarah
_________________
CPL(H) / FI(H) - R22, S300, R44, B206
Flight Examiner (H), 170A, Ground Examiner (H)

[Stevie]

Yaaan,

pm me if you want any more info on Patriot.

Steve

[Hughes500]

Yaaan

If you want to train in the USA use Bristows as they use Schweizers not R22's. You will pass in about 10 to 20% less time than an R22.
I know the R22 brigade will be throwing spears now, but it is a fact of life. Personally I teach everyone down here in Devon on a 300, average time to pass amongst all students( taught close to 100 now) is 53 hours.
Have fun wherever you go, just another quick one many UK companies will not let FAA pplh holders self fly hire, although with the current economic climate that will change.

[Yaaan]

H500,

thanks for the advice. It all goes into the pot of things to consider...and to make my life more difficult

Where in Devon are you? My parents live in Cornwall so I'm down that way fairly often.

I think I've pretty much decided against heading to the states for my licecnce now (unless I decide to emigrate ) although I did look at Bristow and they seem to be fairly good...